and dragging a protester across the ground. Amnesty international warning we could see more of this in the coming hours and days. Let's go to Selena Wang at a protest in beijing. >> Reporter: I'm in the middle of the protest happening in beijing. It's just past 1:00 A.M. There's a crowd of young people that have gathered to protest the covid measures. They have been chanting, no to covid tests, yes to freedom. This is where the center of the covid outbreak is in beijing, where they urged all residents to stay at home.
It's really unprecedented we are seeing a large crowd of people here. A lot of the folks as well, you can see they are holding white pieces of paper. This is a symbol of anti-censorship. We saw protests in Shanghai, protesters were holding those white pieces of paper. Around here, there are many foreign embassies, including the American embassy over there. This protest has been going on for several hours. It's very late. You can see the policemen is telling me to move back a little bit. There's a large police presence here. On this row, it's peaceful. You can hear cheering, chanting. Cars are driving by frequently. They are honking in solidarity.
Folks don't look like they are going anywhere. >> Thank you very much. >>> Let's bring in Fareed zakaria. Great to see you. You know this all too well, these displays of defiance are rarely tolerated by communist leadership in China. They ruthlessly crack down on dissent. They are allowing folks like Selena to do a brief live report. What do you make of this? Are the Chinese just keeping this contained as much as possible and allowing it until it goes away? What do you think? >> It's amazing what we are witnessing and the reporting has been amazing. China has often allowed protests. People have the mistaken impression they allow no protests.
There are lots of protests, always on very specific local issues. Food shortage or local corruption, something like that. What is extraordinary about this one is that they are allowing protests in which people are talking more generally about communist party rule, as you say, no to covid lockdowns, yes to freedom. There have been some Shanghai protesters who said XI should resign. That's completely unusual. It's unprecedented. For it to be happening in Shanghai at the university, the university that XI went to when he got his chemical engineering degree in the '70s, that's what makes this unusual. They are almost certainly going to crack down over time. They are unlikely to allow this to spread. But the very fact that it's happening should remind us that China is not just this big box out there. There are real live people in there who have aspirations and ideas and ideals.
They are getting more and more educated. One of the things XI has to deal with with the covid lockdown is one thing when you have a herd of peasants. You are talking about college educated people who are defying the covid lockdown. >> Right. I have to ask you, does this pose any threat or challenge whatsoever to XI? What about the covid lockdown policy, this extreme policy they have had, could that be coming to an end? Might the Chinese government relent? >> In the past, they have course corrected when they have faced this kind of public outcry.
It's a crazy policy. The reason they have it, just so people understand, is they are unwilling to use mrna vaccines to vaccinate their population because they are western vaccines. They want to create their own. They have been trying, essentially reverse engineering the western vaccines. They have not been able to do so. It's a kind of extreme version of vaccine nationalism. They are hoping they will soon have that and they will be able to — we know they can vaccinate people really fast in China. So far, they haven't been able to. As to the longer term, it's hard to imagine that this would — the commuist party is so entrenched. I would suspect what is more likely is that they will race to get these vaccines. They will be able to open up. We will — we will look at this as a reminder how dictatorships work.
>> No question about it. Dr. Fauci, who is on some of the morning talk shows here in the U.S., was essentially saying what you just said. The Chinese have been resistant to allowing these more effective vaccines to come in from outside of China. They could have gotten a better handle on things had they done that. Fauci was talking about how politics needs to be kept out of the investigations into covid's origins which has been controversial from time to time. Let's listen to this. >> Look at the anti-china approach that clearly the trump administration had right from the very beginning. And the accusing nature. The Chinese will say, we will not talk to you about it, which is not correct. >> They are not talking to the Biden administration about it either.
>> Exactly. I think that horse is out of the barn. They are suspicious of anybody trying to accuse them. We need to have an open dialogue with their scientists and our scientists. Keep the politics out of it. Let the scientists — these are scientists we have known for decades. We have collaborated with them. >> He was saying, we have keep our minds open to the possibility that there was a leak at the lab. Fauci went on to say that the evidence all indicates that this was a human to animal leap that took place when it came to covid's origins. What did you make of the comments? >> I think he is right. As far as we know, the proceedings of a national academy of science has put out a report on November 10th saying the most likely transmission is, as you said, a wild market to human. There's a possibility it could have been from the Wuhan lab.
We will never know, because the Chinese are never going to cooperate to the extent that you would need them to to do a kind of genetic tracing, almost detective work, to find out what's happening. Fauci is right it was probably spooked by the trump people really trying to use it. It got their backs up. As a result, they are super suspicious and nationalistic about it. We have a problem here. We need a — this is not the last time something like this happens.
We need a process by which scientists can collaborate and give us the best scientific conclusion. Not a political conclusion, but a scientific conclusion. >> Right. Domestic politics got way out of control when it came to containing covid and global politics as well. Let's talk about Ukraine very quickly. Russia targeting civilian infrastructure there. Cutting off the heat, trying to ratchet up the cruelty and mystery. I suppose — is this all Putin has left to try to win this war? >> You are exactly right. It's a very powerful, brutal weapon. Putin has decided he can't beat the Ukrainian army. So he is going to take the war to Ukraine's civilians. What he is doing is unprecedented.
We have not seen this since World War II, I think. Because this is the deliberate targeting of civilians. Cutting off their energy, cutting off their heat, their light, bombing sewage facilities, trying to plunge the entire country into darkness and cold. This needs to be taken up. It strikes me there should be another round of sanctions related to this to make clear that Putin can't get away with this. This is the most brutal kind of war against innocent men, women and children. He is not fighting the Ukrainian soldiers, because he is not winning there. What he is doing is fighting men, women and children. >> That's right. He is inflicting unspeakable cruelty upon the civilian population there because he can't get what he wants, which.
