Managing Special Government Employee Service

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Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: (Sound begins mid-sentence).
Basic Collection. I'' m Cheryl Piasecki, and also'I ' m really delighted to be signed up with today by 2. of my associates from the principles neighborhood. Dan Fort is a principles official with the Environmental.
Protection Company. And Also Karen Santoro is the DAEO at the National Scientific Research Foundation. As well as.
I desire to invite you both to the program today. Dan Ft: Thanks. Karen Santoro: Thank you. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: For those of you who.
are that may have went to the OGE Top in March, I simply wanted to notify you that this.
is, in several respects, a similar presentation, if not an identical discussion from what.
we delivered at the summit. This was not a session that had been streamed, to make sure that'' s. why we decided to have it be just one of our Fundamental Series' ' broadcasts. And prior to we begin on today'' s session.
where we'' re talking going to be chatting regarding taking care of SGE service, I do have a few short.
announcements.Next week, for the Advanced Practitioner Collection,. we ' re additionally mosting likely to be invite we'have actually additionally welcomed some individuals from beyond OGE to. come in for a panel presentation.
The discussion is going to get on the interaction between FOIA,. the Ethics in Federal Government Act and
the Personal privacy Show respect to ethics records. I think. that that ' s a that'' s something that'' s of wonderful interest to the community, therefore we'' re actually. happy to be able to provide that to you following week. The first week in May, is what tentatively.
we have actually scheduled to deliver our three-day 278e massive, open, on-line training course. What we.
will certainly be doing is presenting kind of an introductory-level review of the 278e. As I stated, it will be.
a three-day enormous, open, on-line course, so there will certainly be exercises and application.
exercises that we would invite you to involve in.So, be looking for statements around.
that probably in the initial week in May. As well as with that said, Patrick, if you would certainly be ready.
to to raise our slide deck, we'' ll go on and get going with today'' s conversation about.
taking care of SGEs. Okay. Well, I assume Karen and also Dan; I think.
SGEs are are an idea that I think a whole lot of people find fairly confusing for for a range.
of factors. I think, in big action, since the individuals aren'' t even sure, I
wear ' t think,.

where the interpretation of this comes from.Like, where what this principle is connected to. And also as I ' ve brought up below on this on this. slide, curiously enough, where you find the definition of an SGE is in Title 18 of the.
United States Code, and that'' s in the criminal conflict of passion statutes, in 202, where. all the definitions for the criminal problem of rate of interest statutes reside. And I assume,.
unfortunately, a great deal of people assume that this is somehow an employees law principle, therefore.
so, I think when it pertains to kind of handling SGEs, as well as choosing who is accountable for.
determining them, who is responsible for tracking them, exactly how we even know who is an SGE, I believe.
the really fact that it that it obtained its genesis remains in the conflict of passion laws; it sort.
of makes life a little complex for everybody. Would you concur with that? Dan Fort: Yeah, I would concur with that. And also.
it'' s simply interesting that the reason and it must be oh my God, it needs to be over half.
a century back, that that rationale of SGEs entered into being when the federal government required.
the momentary services of of individuals to act as public servant for their specific.
expertise.It wasn ' t that you were mosting likely to, you know, get a government work, like those of.
us here; we'' re all normal public servant, and most likely most of individuals listening.
are regular civil servant. The idea was to just have momentary solution.
to assist the federal government for a brief amount of time. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. And as well as if you.
check out the interpretation, that'' s it ' s that ' s virtually what the interpretation is is an indicator.
of. It claims the term unique government employee is an officer or a staff member that is maintained,.
designated, appointed or employed to perform and also it'' s with or without compensation
not. to go beyond 130 days ' short-lived obligations either on a permanent or a recurring basis. So, the very the actual nature of special federal government.
staff members is the intent is that they will certainly be short-term staff members; there'' s not a purpose.
that they would be full-time federal government employees.So, recognizing
that that is the interpretation,.
as well as that'' s where the interpretation lives, I believe one of the very first points that we have.
to be extremely cognizant of is that unique civil servant are, firstly, employees. For someone to have an SGE status, they have to be a staff member. And also so, what OGE has has.
claimed in its advisories is that you try to find indicia of work, where that meaning.
stays, which is in 5 U.S.C. 2105. And also because because law, they essentially.
outlined 3, rather obscure I would state, standards of what makes up, you know, someone having.
employee status with the federal government; and that'' s that they ' ve been appointed to the civil solution,.
that they have a work; they'' re performing a federal feature; and they'' re being overseen.
by a government official. Currently, I recognize this shows up, and people might.
be stating, well, why would certainly we ever need to doubt whether somebody was an SGE.
or a staff member? And we'' re mosting likely to discuss this in a bit extra information later on, but.
there are individuals who involve give solution to the federal government that are thought about representatives. As well as when you'' re making classifications concerning whether or not that private'' s service makes. them based on any kind of ethics rules, you have to first determine whether or not they are.
really a rep or an employee.And these are three
of the criteria that 5. U.S.C. outlines, regarding what makes somebody an employee. And Dan, you as well as I were chatting a little earlier. regarding how EPA due to the fact that you said you
do have some agents in a few of your committees,. correct? Dan Fort: Yes, we do. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. So, do you want. to share with people
as well as we ' re going to discuss this in a little bit extra detail later,. however I thought it was really intriguing that you said that you had like four things that.
you all look to when you'' re trying to determine whether a person is a staff member or a representative.Dan Ft: Yeah, I get it. What we did is placed. together an EPA paper, a principles advisory, where we set out the criteria whereby you. would certainly figure out whether somebody would certainly be an agent or an unique federal government staff member. And also, you recognize, what we did is we took a whole lot of OGE'' s legal advisories, casual advisories,.
and type of kind of smacked them all together so we can have one practical file to.
check out. So, there'' s really four points that we look. at. One is we check out the anticipated function of the advising board participant; you recognize,. what are they mosting likely to be doing? Are they there for their knowledge or are they there. due to the fact that they'' re representing a team or a point of view. We additionally ask ourselves, is the participant.
going to obtain settlement from from the company? Was the participant appointed by recommendation.
by outside parties? And finally, does the the enabling legislation for the board, if.
it'' s a legal board or they'' re a committee charter, sort of assistance you establish what kind.
of consultatory committee board participants you'' re going to have.
Are they reps or. special public servant? Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay.And we ' re going.
to find back to that and I'' m mosting likely to ask you to elaborate on that particular a little a lot more.
later when we actually start chatting a lot more particularly as well as discretely concerning agents;.
because you'' ve discussed on a few of the important things that I assume are actually material to that decision. But for today, we'' re going to kind of
. like advance with when your when you have actually made a determination and you know that the.
people that you have actually appointed are really employees, such that they are properly.
unique public servant. We I assume it'' s essential to recognize what makes these individuals. unique. Like why is this classification of staff members somehow just how are they divided out from regular.
rank as well as documents employees? Since you can be momentary, you can be part-time, you can be.
full-time, therefore where where'' s that line drawn, and also what makes somebody unexpectedly unique? The initial thing is that the obligations are momentary. As well as the statute the definition in the statute itself says precisely what short-lived ways;.
and also it means that they offer 130 days or much less in a 365-day successive period.So, from.

you would certainly you would certainly determine that like from the day that they would be assigned if you.
do a 365-degree appearance in advance of that appointment day, you make an estimate concerning whether.
or otherwise you expect that they'' re mosting likely to serve for more for 130 days or much less.
If you. totally expect that their service will meet that day-counting requirement, after that you can.
you can you can consider them SGEs, and mark them as special government employees. As well as.
then that SGE status remains with them throughout that entire one year visit duration. Currently, I wear'' t know, have you all had experiences.
where your SGEs have exceeded the 130 day duration? Karen Santoro: We'' ve had a pair. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: And it ' s our workers workplace. that alerts us of the days. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: And also then, we get back. to the'SGE and say you ' re no longer unique. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: Right here are the additional ethics.
rules that put on you. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Okay. And I'' m. interested that when when you have people who who who prolong for an additional year, like.
their visit is mosting likely to prolong past the additional year, do you after that review.
their standing for the for nonetheless lengthy that their consultation is mosting likely to be? Karen Santoro: We essentially look at what their.
duties are mosting likely to be.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: If we need them for advice Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: then we would mainly take into consideration. them special civil servant. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Okay. So so actually,. it boils down to the SGE
standing is essentially a day-counting feature. You need to look. at the number of days that you anticipate somebody is going to to provide services, as well as. if they ' re mosting likely to fall within
that ambit of that day counting, they are special government. workers, not simply part-time employees. Because you can have somebody that is functioning part. time, but if they ' re, you understand, mosting likely to function', you recognize, more than 130 days, as well as you prepare for. they ' re mosting likely to function
more'than 130 days, they put on ' t obtain the special civil servant.
name. The various other thing is you don'' t have to pay special. public servant. They can serve with or without compensation. And also as Dan and also Karen.
are both going to speak regarding below in a bit, the principles regulations are going to apply,.
you recognize, rather in a different way, in some context. Some of the regulations as well as regulations apply the very same,.
and also some of the guidelines and also legislations apply in a different way; and we'' re mosting likely to sort of parse that out.
later in today'' s presentation.One advisory might Dan mentioned that EPA has. type of kind of tried to find up
with an extensive document that draws together a great deal of the. advisories that OGE has actually provided taking care of SGEs, however one of the most detailed that. OGE issued, and also I believe it ' s still relevant and still it'' s still applicable, is the OGE.
advising from February 15, 2000. And you can discover that on our on OGE'' s site. This really needs to be if you deal with SGEs.
this needs to be in your toolbox. You need to have this advisory in your toolkit, as well as have.
read it and took a look at it, due to the fact that it covers whatever from day counting to what are the.
indicia of employee condition to walking you through actually every criteria of conduct,.
and every dispute of passion law, and also allowing you understand which ones put on SGEs,.
as well as especially exactly how they apply to SGEs. Yeah, Patrick, did you have a Patrick Guard: Yes, we do. We have a couple.
of questions being available in Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Patrick Shepherd: over the Hangout that I.
think are timely.And the initial inquiry is; this person thought. that SGEs could stay SGEs if they work even more than 130 days, as long as there was a great. faith quote made at the start. You understand, could you talk to that? Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: I think in OGE ' s analysis. is that when you make a classification at the beginning of the appointment, then that lasts. for the that lasts for the extension of the visit. However if they go beyond the 130 days,. that what we recommend in our in our advice record is that that should inform your next. assessment about whether they preserve SGE status for any kind of succeeding visits. And I assume that ' s what OGE ' s guidance document says.Patrick Guard: Exceptional, thanks. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Was there one more concern. or Patrick Shepherd: Yes, there is another inquiry,. and also this concern is can you recoup any kind of money paid to them if they ' ve persuaded the 130. days? Exactly how does that work for settlement? Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: I ' m going to ask Dan.
and also Karen to deal with that concern. Dan Fort: Beyond my area, however.Karen Santoro: Yes, I do not recognize.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. So, you ' ve baffled. us.

You ' ve puzzled the panel. Dan Fort: Quick, call a workers attorney. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: I recognize I have no concern. that would certainly that would certainly you seek advice from on a situation like that? Dan Fort: That would certainly be employees folks. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Dan Ft: My hunch is, you know, when you. pay them, you pay them, you understand, yet not my area nonetheless. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. Okay. Right. Back on the slide deck, Patrick, if you could. Okay. So, we ' ve we ' re mosting likely to separate, you. recognize, the the SGE tag right into kind of 2 separate teams. This'we'might quibble around.
whether this might or may not be the most effective method to split up SGEs for for objectives.
of understanding the different variations in which they come. Yet I believe for functions.
of what of our discussion today, this makes rather great sense.We have what we call FACA SGEs, that are unique. civil servant that were acting as participants on federal advising committees that are subject. to the Federal Advisory Board Act.
So, it stands to factor that if that ' s one subgroup,. there is in fact an additional group, which are non
FACA, which are SGEs that might be on committees,. maybe serving on advisory boards, that aren ' t based on the Federal Advisory Committee. Act. Or there ' s likewise this various other group, which aren ' t always committee participants in all,. but are people that are worked with on a short-lived basis to serve as professionals or specialists to. the agency, as well as it ' s by virtue of the reality that it ' s short-term responsibilities for 130 days or. less, which is what makes them an unique government employee.Like I claimed, we ' ve separated this into FACA. versus non-FACA, and also I ' m going to ask oh, and also this is just a the following slide is is simply.

a little'point that we obtained from the 2014 OGE annual set of questions,'to provide you kind of. a breakdown of when we are discussing, especially advising board SGEs, the. prevalence of SGEs that we have in the federal government that who offer on advisory. boards, are serving on FACA advising committees
. As you can see the numbers the numbers sort. of like spell that out for us. Yet what I ' m going to ask my 2 associates. right here to discuss, because I am not a local professional on FACA, and also these two people actually. have a great deal of experience, is to type of briefly clarify, you recognize, what is FACA, what is its. function, you recognize, who that heads it up, that is accountable for it, where do you seek.
support? And also, you understand, Karen and Dan, either of you leap in and and type of take
charge. of this one.Dan Fort: I ' ll allow you do this one. Karen Santoro: So, my understanding is that
. FACA was established so that the work of the government could be transparent. So, when we employ.

our outside'experts, the public should certainly find out about that. They get notified of conferences,. they have the possibility to attend if it ' s open, they recognize who our experts are, as well as they. know the basis on which we came to our decisions.
It ' s in fact GSA that applies the FACA regulation. and the regulations.They have a board administration secretariat.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. And also do either. of'you have non-FACA committees that you take care of
? Karen Santoro: We have

one that worries diving. safety and security in the Antarctic. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Oooh. Dan Fort: That ' s good. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: See, you have all the. sexy advising committees at the National Science Foundation. Karen Santoro: But we do have non-FACA'SGEs. that are outside of the boards.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: The boards. So,. you have professionals and also experts that are SGEs? Karen Santoro: Right.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Karen Santoro: We generally describe them. as intermittent experts. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Do you understand, or. can you attend to the concern of how do you understand if your board is a FACA board or not? Karen Santoro: Every One Of ours are, other than the. one I stated. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: And also it ' s because of the charter. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki:
Okay. So so the charter.

would show whether or not it was meant to be a FACA committee, is that correct? Karen Santoro: Yes. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Okay. So, the. actually what the problem with FACA is we ' re trying to find transparency, right? We ' re trying to find.
openness and liability that, you know, to the extent that we ' re bringing in.
experts to suggest the federal government, those procedures are clear, as well as the general public has a possibility. to see like what people are talking about and giving the table, is that sort of, generally Karen Santoro
: Yes. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: fix? Okay. Dan Ft: That ' s the factor FACA was enacted. to begin with is to provide that openness, which was doing not have prior to its enactment.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm, okay.
Patrick Guard: As Well As we do have another inquiry. being available in over the Hangout, and this also takes care of just how companies assign and maintain. track of special civil servant.
And this concern is probably for Dan as well as Karen. Just how do you track that is an SGE? Do.
you simply note that on the SF 50, or are there various other ways that you make that official classification? Dan Fort: Well in our instance, which I ' ll get.
to in a minute, we in fact have our really own form, a confidential financial disclosure. type, which we created and also for which we got approval from OGE. As well as we make all of our. unique civil servant load it out, as long as they are private economic. disclosure filers. If we have one, an SGE, who fulfills the requirements.
for being the public financial disclosure, and also I put on ' t think we ' ve
had any of those for. a minimum of maybe a year, maybe 2 years, probably
more.In that situation, after that naturally they ' re. obliged'to submit the OGE 278e and also be in Honesty, obviously. So, if they are an SGE, they submit an

completely. different kind than the OGE 450, although it has lots of resemblances to the 450, so by. definition we understand who they are. Karen Santoro: So, like EPA, the National. Science Structure has its very own alternate confidential declaring disclosure kind for our.
SGEs, however it just puts on our SGEs that are on consultatory committees or our proposal.
testimonial panels. The non-FACA SGEs would typically either submit a 278e or a 450. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Karen Santoro: And it is the office that does. the hiring who informs workers we desire this private to just offer this many days, and. that ' s just how the SGE is designated.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. So, effectively,. it ' s the hiring authorities notifies personnel, and after that you get notified since they are. filers. So, it ' s via the filing procedure that'your workplace obtains notified that these.
people are onboard? Karen Santoro: We are notified of
every brand-new. hire. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Karen Santoro: Due to the fact that we do new worker.
alignment for everybody. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. As well as Dan? Dan Fort: In our case, we ' re we have a really. decentralized system at EPA, so it would go to the private office that ' s working with the. SGEs. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay.
So, just how does your. workplace recognize if you are missing out on an economic disclosure type, or'if so so I assume since. I assume with the question that that somebody ' s asked us, how do you track that? Like how.
do you know if you if your cosmos of SGEs if you ' re mindful of deep space of SGEs? Dan Fort: Well, we do a survey every year.
to figure out exactly how they using the OGE ' s annual survey to find out, you recognize, just how many SGEs. we have, whether they submit the monetary disclosure forms, the number of they had, and so on, et cetera.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Ft: Yet in terms of taking a look at and reviewing. these individual SGEs, you know, that wound up being degenerated down to our replacement ethics. authorities, whose power moves by EPA order down to the a degree outside

of the Workplace of General. Advice of Ethics. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay.
Karen; and also you? Karen Santoro: For our FACA SGEs, we depend. on the assigned federal official for that committee or panel to accumulate the types as well as. assess them.
As well as they can consult us if they have questions. For our non-FACA SGEs, we have a digital. filing system that
will instantly notify us when people are overdue and also send out tips. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki:
Okay. Okay. Excellent. Okay. So, the FACA guidelines contain some some recommendations,. actual references to the role of principles officials in the government advising committee, you understand,. kind of procedure. Among the points that we have actually quoted right here is that the DAEO should be. sought advice from before assigning
participants.And after that this various other the various other thing we have from
the from the policy claims that, you know, firms need to assure that the rate of interests
and also associations of members are examined for uniformity with ethics rules.So, my question to both of you is, what duty does your shop play, you recognize, either at with relative to what'' s being referenced below, either in terms of being spoken with before visit, in terms of engaging in what seems, you know I'' m presuming that the second one is referring to, you know, problems of interest, and also and other kinds of ethics worries that that any one of the advising board members might have. So, what sort of role does your office play, and kind of when do you enter this process, and that are you communicating with as well as what does that appear like in each of your companies? Dan Ft: Well, in our case, like I stated, we have a really decentralized system at the company, so we have replacement values authorities, for example, that are connected with each of the FACA boards, and also they'' re the ones that evaluation, sign the forms.In our case, as a whole advice values, we will obtain spoken with if there is a concern worrying a dispute of interest that they are not able to solve, or they have particular questions they want to ask us regarding prospective disputes of interest or points of that nature'. However beyond that, that ' s in fact degenerated down to the deputy principles main degree, so.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. So, that would be like in regional offices? Is that what you ' re describing? Dan
Fort: It wouldn ' t be really in, to the great level, in our regional workplaces. It ' s primarily our head office workplaces that either take care of FACA committees or the the locations where we have SGEs, you understand, that are are at head office. There absolutely are some SGEs in local offices, as well as those would be their economic disclosure types would be looked at by the deputy values officials in the areas. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Karen, how what what role do you all play? Karen Santoro: So, as I stated, since most of our committee participants as well as panel members are immediately assumed to be SGEs, we really don'' t play much of a function in
that.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: And it is the program officer or designated federal official that examines the disputes of rate of interest types and determines whether or not there is some issue. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: For our non-FACA SGEs, once again, it'' s employees that allows us recognize when they'' re on board, and we would certainly do the collection of the monetary disclosure as well as the evaluation. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. So after that there, you take a a lot more straight duty in kind of counseling them a lot the way you would like a regular Karen Santoro: Right. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: worker. Karen Santoro: Right. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: So once more, can you repeat who is it once again with respect to your consultatory committees who does that job? Karen Santoro: The assigned government authorities. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Oh, the marked government official.Karen Santoro: DFO

it ' s called. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: So, I ' m interested what sort of training have you men
been offering those folks, or just how, you recognize exactly how have you outfitted them to do that task? Karen Santoro
: Well, we have a very active committee administration office, and they '
re in charge of that. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: And also our office oftentimes is asked to provide a discussion to the consultatory board participants, which consists of the DFO. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Karen Santoro: And oftentimes our DFO is what we call a disputes official, who is a neighborhood, permanent staff member in each of our offices that regularly obtains training from us. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. And also they'' re possibly the ones in the finest position to have a full understanding of what the committee is doing, what'' s coming prior to the committee, as well as what even the capacity for problem might be.Karen Santoro
: Definitely. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm, that makes good sense. Dan Fort: And also I wish to make two points. We you recognize, in our situation, we have by EPA order, we have deputy ethics officials, and we as well as they'' re the ones that are, you recognize, make the decisions on the our financial disclosure forms, as well as we additionally supply them with training, as well as when a we have certain example FACA committees that have blended reps as well as SGEs. Because instance, the basic advise does get included, and each time a committee charter is restored, or at any time brand-new members begun, then we get included to ensure that the members are appropriately designated as either unique civil servant or as representatives. So, that'' s it ' s really vital to get included because since you want to make certain that, you understand, you'' re not designating individuals as
reps that in fact ought to be unique government workers Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Government employees. Dan Fort: so, that'' s very, really important. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Absolutely. And we'' re. going to give you a chance to discuss that in a great deal even more detail in a moment.So, for non-FACA SGE designations, again,.
we were discussing that these would resemble private experts and also consultants that.
are not always working with any type of sort of an advising committee. Really usually they are assigned pursuant to.
a firm'' s own internal workers guidelines, and that, you recognize, in this instance, you. understand, the companies additionally have to mark the status of people that are non-FACA SGEs,. once again, to make sure that they really are civil servant and also should have the the status of SGEs. And also Karen, I think you already I was going.
to ask again, like what what role does the values shop have fun with non-FACA folks, and.
whether it'' s distinctive from what you do for FACA folks? Currently, and also obviously at NSF,.
it is different.You play a different
role. Exactly how about you, Dan? Dan Fort: Well, the large bulk of our SGEs. are Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Non-FACA? Dan Fort: non-FACA. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Dan Fort: Yeah, so. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Simply for informative. functions, and also if you people
have a like have a have a if either of you have any commentary.
on this. We ask the inquiry, on the yearly set of questions.
annually, whether agencies have actually composed policies or procedures for designating SGE.
status, and as you can see, only 40 percent of the federal government agencies really.
have plans as well as procedures. Currently, that can be you recognize, I assume I'' m not exactly sure precisely. whether this concern addresses individuals just those people who have SGEs. I'' m assuming.
it does. But I'' m curious; do you all have policies. as well as procedures, created policies and also treatments? Dan Ft: Yes, we do.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Fort: As Well As what we did is we took a whole lot.
of lawful advisories that OGE has put with each other for many years, and also official letters, as well as placed.
it all with each other in one document, which we then use as our standard for assisting individuals.
determine whether someone must be an SGE or an agent. So, we always refer back.
to that file when we have inquiries worrying that. And also obviously, we play the consultative.
duty as a whole Guidance to see to it that that happens throughout board when the board.
is assigned marking members either as SGEs or as reps. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay, great. Karen? Karen Santoro: So, it'' s our employees workplace. that has actually written procedures as to who gets designated as an SGE for non-FACA purposes. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. So, then the following.
concern was; as well as you all have actually sort of answered this also, however possibly I'' ll punt it back.
to you once again just for information. So, if you had to when you did have to answer.
this concern, which workplace at your company excuse me makes the decision that an.
person is an SGE? As well as Karen, I assume you'' re stating that for for non for non-FACA, it ' s. the workers office? Karen Santoro: Well, it'' s the hiring workplace. who educates the workers workplace Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay.Karen Santoro: that that ' s what they want. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay, okay. And Dan,. you said it'' s your Dan Ft: Well, for a FACA, it ' s it ' s actually. General Guidance, so we probably would suit the other, so, however it yet it but it sort. of they arrange of collaborate with us Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. Dan Fort: and also they ' re

in the principles office,. so.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Dan Ft: So, you can kind of state it ' s us.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Simply curious as well,. like, I recognize that a great deal of companies are worried about, and also among the biggest concerns that. they have is, how do you develop the sort of participating relationship that you require. with your HR, with your employees stores, or with any various other companies you have to function. with in these in these scenarios? So, I'' m kind of interested if either of you have.
some, you recognize, finest techniques, or some tips for folks regarding exactly how do you craft.
those sort of partnerships with those people you have to rely on to do this feature that,.
certainly, impacts your capability to do you item of the work? Karen Santoro: Well, NSF is a very small agency. So, we do regularly deal with our personnel workplace, as well as we understand them, and also we routinely.
consult with them when problems come up.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Ft: And Also we have, you understand we ' re sort. of a medium, to type of well, I presume, I wear'' t understand just how you would call 15,000 individuals at least.
it'' s a tool company, and in our instance,'the good news is there ' s a most of the folks that are in the. Human resources as well as employees remain in head office, so, you recognize, we can just go over and also
speak with. them, or we use this gadget that'' s resting about 2 feet in front of me called a telephone. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Fort: Or utilize that other brand-new wonder called.
e-mail as well as state allow us understand what'' s going on. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Dan Ft: I ' d claim the
only way to construct those. individual relations is merely to develop them. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right, right, really good.
guidance. Okay. So so now we'' re mosting likely to type of turn. to this entire question of reps, which is, you know, SGEs versus reps. And also as we pointed out previously, the key point with reps is they are not workers;.
they are ruled out civil servant, so consequently, they are exempt to the.
criminal dispute of passion laws, or to the standards of conduct.And you were saying that a person of the indicia. of being a representative is that they they are intended to stand for; I suggest, that is.
their entire function is to stand for some sort of non-governmental group, whether it'' s, you. recognize, a market, whether it ' s, you know, a consumers, or some identified outside team.
outside of government. And also there there the objective is also then that because they'' re. representing that group, they ' re can be found in with that said specific point of view. Dan Fort: You'' d hope so, since that'' s
why. you have them there in the very first place. You recognize, the means I always remember it, because,.
you understand, in my easy mind I'' ve reached bear in mind things in shorthand.The way I check out

it. is they ' re wolves in wolves ' clothing. You understand, there should be a factor you put them.
on there, and as well as incidentally, when you, you recognize, are putting with each other this this chart.
to figure out, gee, you understand, they'' re agents', you ' ve got to recognize what team they ' re what. passion'group they ' re really representing. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Ft: Okay, you know, it ' s, you recognize have. it wonderful and also clear so you recognize who these agents are', as well as what team they ' re representing,. since if you don ' t understand, after that nobody else on the board is going to know, and also the. public isn ' t mosting likely to understand.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right, right. So, we ' ve. provided below some of the authorities that you get in touch with to help educate whether or not they. are actually representatives
, or intended to be representatives.And I recognize that sometimes. in like the natural statute that develops them, that you'' ll find an indicator that,.
you know that the Congress meant that there be particular reps, as well as they'' ll even. use the word agents, however that'' s not always the case, remedy? I indicate the language Dan Ft: Right. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: can often be not.
entirely clear. Dan Ft: No, in some cases it'' s not clear
at. all. I imply, you know, in our'in EPA ' s case, a lot of that legislation remains in reality rather.
clear, but in other instances it'' s not. Well allow ' s claim, you recognize, you intend to you desire a representative. from, you know you understand, different components of the country or something like that, you understand. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Ft: So so, you understand, you'' ve reached look. at your allowing regulation meticulously to see what it informs you regarding the classification.
of members, so.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Currently, are there various other. authorities? I mean, we ' ve listed a few other authorities right here, but in your very own experience,. have there been other authorities that you ' ve needed to speak with besides like regulation. as well as, you understand, and also, you understand, establishing organic laws? Is there is there any kind of various other. authority that you ' ve seen where those
sort of terms would be? Dan Fort: Yeah, you understand, if it ' s a non-statutory. committee, you ' ve reached check out the charter. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Dan Ft: Currently as well as by the way, those charters. can alter over time, since in some cases the charter is restored, and in some cases the charter. may be restored as though may alter the makeup of the committee, so you have to. recognize as an example, if you had a committee that was all reps, and now the. nature of that committee has actually altered, as well as if you ' re listening to me available, you'recognize. that sometimes that really can happen.And in some cases you might discover that you may require

now. depictive reason me, unique civil servant to offer proficiency in an area. to help your board. If that occurs, don ' t just designate them as. reps even if everyone else in the past has been a rep on the. committee, consider designating them as special government employees, due to the fact that you ' re. employing them for their competence, not that they stand for. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Excellent. Currently, as well as. I believe that ' s actually that ' s that ' s truly wonderful recommendations, because I indicate I believe that ' s. exactly it. If these things aren ' t uncompromising, and also they are vibrant, and they require. to be occasionally reviewed, I believe it ' s really helpful for individuals to have a heads up. concerning that; that this does not imply that, once an agent, always a representative.So, I said I was going to give you a little. document that kind of pulls with each other

a few of the even more seminal OGE guidance memoranda that.
offer with SGEs. And also, you know, this is for your ease. I ' m not mosting likely to go down. through the listing below, but just so that you ' re conscious that they exist. And you. can find these on the Office of Federal government Ethics ' website if you look under our lawful.
advisories tab, you should be able to fairly readily find these by year, in fact. And below ' s a little listing of advising board. best techniques, and also among the among them, amongst many, is, you recognize, to be entailed early. on in the appointment procedure to ensure that, you understand, that you ' re capturing individuals. with problems, or aiding helping people that are making those decisions do their work.
to the best of their capacity, to ensure that you ' re maintaining your committees, you understand, as conflict-free. as as you possibly can, since'that ' s one of the kind of like the interesting quandaries.
with SGEs is that the very factor you want them is for their expertise, and also typically. competence features its own set of, you know, relationships as well as passions that might extremely well. be in direct conflict
with what you in fact want them to accomplish.So, without more trouble, I ' m mosting likely to transform.
the the microphone, and whatever, over to Dan Dan Fort: Yeah. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: as well as the slide deck over. to Dan, and also Dan ' s mosting likely to speak to us a little concerning the values rules that use, and also. just how to manage your SGEs ' ethics problems.
Dan Ft: Currently', watch on our time. So,. it ' s regarding Karen Santoro: We ' ve obtained a hr. We ' ve obtained. a hr. Dan Ft: Oh, an hour? Okay, terrific. So, what. I ' m going to speak about right here is the sort of core'ethics regulations that relate to SGEs. I ' m. not going to provide you a comprehensive testimonial of all the values policies and also guidelines, because. you know what, this is not mosting likely to be a'memorization exercise.Instead, what I wish to do below is just to. explain a few of the crucial concerns for you. You understand some I wish to talk concerning a few of. things that you need to keep an eye out for.

And also in as I stated in the past, you recognize, EPA is.
very decentralized. We have deputy values authorities in each one of our offices,. and all of our FACA committees has a replacement values main, as well as their power is kind of. handed over by inner EPA order. I put on ' t recognize how your offices run. They may be various. And in EPA ' s situation, you recognize, we have specifically,
you know, 2 permanent as well as 2 part-time. values authorities generally Guidance principles, as well as we have 15,000 workers, you recognize, in. both head office here in D.C. We ' ve obtained ten local workplaces, great deals of different other. laboratories and also centers, and also we have numerous hundred SGEs.So, if you believe we ' re going to be able. to look it over with the, you recognize, 3 standard SGEs we ' ve entered General Counsel values,. you understand, we require our we require to depend
on our deputy values official, and also you may be.
in the exact same situation as well. So, what I ' m going to do currently is show you some. of the standard regulations and also guidelines. One I did not placed in right here is so, I ' m going to begin. with one that ' s a little not stated with this and also less familiar,
which ' s 18 U.S.C. 209, as well as that ' s supplements of salary.That really'does not use to SGEs; however,. you should recognize that under 5 C.F.R. 2635.807 says that you can ' t an SGE can not get non-government. payment for training, speaking or composing, if it ' s taken on as component of their official. duties, or any kind of way to which they ' re appointed, or been assigned in the previous 1 year.
period. Yet it only applies during that current visit,'and also if they serve less than 60.
days, it ' s just particular party matters that are covered. You know, that ' s not to give
you a memorization. exercise, it ' s simply to show you that the policies covering special civil servant are. not that simple. You ' ve reached consider them
, and also you have to take a look at numerous elements. of what your board is doing so you ' ll recognize
just how to use the best principles regulations and also. regs to your SGEs.Let me simply chat a bit about 203 as well as.
205; obviously, not a criminal statute, and'that speak about depiction back to the.
federal government

, but, it turns out, if you ' re an SGE, and also it ' s just and it ' s less. than 60 days, it just requests
certain event matters; gives, agreements, enforcement. activities, that type of point, that the SGE took part in. But, if they serve over 60. days during the right away preceding 365-day period, they can ' t stand for back on any kind of issue.
to the particular firm where they ' re working, yet the rest of the government is okay.
However,. you understand, they say on those knife commercials, however wait, there ' s more. Allow ' s talk about 18 U.S.C. 208, shall we? That ' s the criminal statute concerning conflict of passion. This is the one you ' re probably,. you recognize, many acquainted with.And I assume that ' s interesting to check out that in the.

context of Legislative intent worrying unique civil servant. As well as I ' ll tell. you why. So, as several of you understand, if you ' re working with a FACA board if an SGE if an. SGE is working with a FACA committee, they are really eligible for a waiver under(
b)( 3),. as well as the the criterion for that, for that waiver, is that the interest of the government has.
to exceed the potential for dispute. However, if they ' re not dealing with a FACA committee,. they can ' t get the('b) (3) waiver, they can just get the( b)('1) waiver; and in that instance,. it ' s the very same (b)( 1) waiver that everyone who are routine federal government staff members are held. to.It ' s a criterion that the problem can ' t be

so'substantial as to contaminate the stability'. of employee tasks. Do you all see the distinction below? There ' s. clearly two kinds of SGEs, as well as it was clearly Congress
' intent when they created this this. law, because there are really two sorts of SGEs; those that function on FACA committees and also. give suggestions, right? That ' s why you have them there; they ' re giving guidance to your. firm'. And after that there ' s the various other SGEs, the non-FACA.
SGEs. What are they there for? Well, you recognize, they
' re sort of the employee bees. They work. together with of you, you recognize, on a daily basis, and you may or may not know that they ' re SGEs,. right? But they'' re there to do possibly greater than simply give you guidance. There ' s another exemption, to go even deeper. right into the weeds right here, under 2640.203( g),
that if you ' re an SGE as well as you ' re servicing a FACA. board, you ' re not mosting likely to have a conflict of passion and there ' s an entire number of added. language in there which I ' m not going to get into you ' re not mosting likely to have a conflict of. rate of interest because of where you work, yet
just on issues of general applicability. Those are certain issues that influence a group of individuals as a class.You understand, in EPA ' s. situation maybe utilities, oil refineries
, that kind of thing. Now, you think wow, that ' s a massive exemption,. and'it sort of is, yet while they will certainly not have a dispute of passion as a result of where. they function, that doesn ' t include their financial interests.So, that'' s terrific, you can employ somebody that helps, you understand, ABC Chemical Business, and also they can service an issue of general applicability which might impact ABC Chemical Business, you understand, as a class, you understand, which'' s not a problem, unless they happen to have, you understand, over$ 25,000 in stock in ABC Chemical Firm, in which case now they ' ve obtained a problem again.So, you recognize, okay, everyone confused yet? Okay, you recognize. If you'' re not, you ought to be. I imply, I understand I was.
And also, you understand, there ' s. also much more exemptions here which, you know,( indiscernible- 0:42:42) for things like.
fundraising and also emoluments and also approving you know, accepting presents from international federal governments. So, if you assume we'' re made with this', we ' re not. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Dan, I wished to jump. in right here simply for one 2nd, and also and a pair of points entered your mind for me. You were speaking.
about how type of the mind boggles with the exemptions under 203 and also 205 for SGEs since,.
you understand, it develops it carves out an exception for SGEs that are serving on consultatory boards,.
as well as Dan Fort: 208 as well, yeah.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: But after that it goes on. to say, however after that if you only if you wear ' t offer more than 60 days, therefore'so we ' ve obtained. day checking, and afterwards we ' ve obtained day counting on top of day checking, in order to be able. to identify what of these legislations apply. So, I ' m curious as to that I suggest, do you place. that all back on the SGE to maintain on top of their day counting, and also even if you do that,. like what do you all do to like advise individuals to ensure that they recognize? I suggest, similar to this. is complex enough for us to obtain our heads about, like just how do
you exactly how do you assist SGEs. like even recognize this, or monitor it for them or Dan Ft: What a wonderful question.And and also as well as. the response to that concern, a minimum of in our case, is we see to it that they actually take.
their values training, which they ' re called for to do, and I should say that OGE has superb,. as well as remarkably composed, I must state', on-line values training worrying SGEs. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: A
little self-promotion. going on right here, Dan. Dan Ft: And I ' m not claiming that simply because. I created it a couple of years earlier, you recognize. Well, I assume I'most likely needed to change it, yet.
that ' s neither below neither there. Yet yeah, I suggest, if you don ' t tell them,. they ' re not going to recognize; that ' s number one. Phone number 2 is, you got'to ensure that the. values official, in our case, recognizes that that
' s a situation, and afterwards they can speak with the. personnel person, you know, in their shop, and maintain track of it.Now, we ' re fortunate that nearly none of our

SGEs. offer over 60 days. We love them, but we obtain rid of
them prior to they hit that 60-day mark. However yet someone ' s reached be minding the shop. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. Dan Ft: And you ' ve obtained to see to it that. that is. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm.
Karen, do you. have devices for aiding individuals maintain track, or Karen Santoro: Well, our FACA SGEs all job. 60 days or less.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay
.

Karen Santoro: So, that ' s the bulk of our. SGEs, concerning 16,000 a year.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Wow. Karen Santoro: Et cetera of our non-FACA. SGEs, it ' s the personnel office that keeps track of their days. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay, okay, excellent. I think that was the only inquiry I had Dan Ft: Oh, alright. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: so you go right ahead. Dan Ft: So, you understand, I'' m not mosting likely to go. right into all the requirements of of conduct, due to the fact that we'' ll be here all the time.
So, let me just speak. a little bit regarding financial disclosure. Now, you all recognize you ' re mosting likely to have to. accumulate these reports, right? As well as somebody ' s going to have to review them, similar to someone. reviews the the economic disclosure records of all the normal public servant, right,.
and, I indicate, it just needs to obtain done. And both NSF and also ourselves, we utilize our very own type,.
approved by the Workplace of Government Ethics, since we we required a lot more truthfully we required.
even more info than we were obtaining out of the 450. As well as we require details on peoples''. contracts, as well as their gives, and whether there was any type of factor they couldn'' t serve on a on.

a committee.And, you understand, and also we just needed that info, right? As well as the fact of the.
matter is you'' re not going to get that on an OGE 450, so, you know. As well as and also after that you'' re have to know various other. points; if you pay an SGE over $59.02 an hour, and they work even more than 60 days in the 365-day.
period, guess what? Those fortunate people have to fill out the OGE 278e form. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Fort: They come to be public filers. And and.
not just that and also think me, when you inform them that currently their economic disclosure forms.
are going to be revealed simply by the filling in of a certain type, see what happens.And.

not only that, and now they'' re covered by the supply Act. That implies currently they have to.
go via every little thing ever worrying, you recognize, reporting their supply transactions occasionally.
on the on the 278t form. They currently need to provide you alert on negotiation for work.
and all that other good stuff. So, you got to maintain track of their days, and.
you reached monitor what you'' re paying them too. So, even if you'' re
you. have someone there maintaining track of the days, see to it you know just how much they'' re getting. paid, as well. Since that could be a trouble, fine? Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: So, and also individuals have. to annualize that, right? Whatever they'' re being paid per hour, you annualize that to.
choose if that'' s if they fulfill the reporting limit? Dan Ft: That is a great question.We pay.

them by the hour, so I think that'' s right, it does pass the yearly. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Ft: So, the concern is as well as when I I. believe, you recognize inform individuals is that, you understand, you reached provide training; and the inquiry. is, are you maintaining track of the training? Are you making sure to take training on an.
yearly basis, right? And also who is tracking the training? Are you tracking.
the training? Do you have a system for monitoring the training? Are you counting on.
someone else to monitor the training? These are inquiries you'' re mosting likely to need to. ask on your own. You know, and also I presume
the takeaway I want. you to get of this one screen right here is, you know, the SGEs are, actually, covered by,. you recognize, essentially the same values regulations that we are, yet however, there are a great deal of exemptions.
there that'' s mosting likely to require you, as a values official if you'' re paying attention to me, it'' s going. to need you to check what these SGEs are doing.You can ' t simply go send them off. and also let them set sail, right? You obtained to understand what the hell they ' re doing. So, let me talk a bit concerning the values. problems that you ' ll you ' ll see on panels, or at the very least, you'understand, we see on panels. So,. allow ' s look at
the'panel formation procedure. So, the concern is, is who is accumulating.
this info for you? Are you doing it? Are you relying on your your DFO to do it? You recognize, perhaps you'' re dealing with the board administration police officer, or your administration to.
to collect that info. However someone'' s reached gather that information, as well as you obtained.
to ensure, if you'' re not directly accountable for on your own, who is accumulating the info,.
right? You'' ve got to ask yourself the question, what.
are the matters that are going to be thought about by the board? Are they matters, or are.
they specific issues? Are they particular matters of general applicability, or are they.
going to be specific issues that impact certain events? Due to the fact that every one.
of those decisions is mosting likely to tell you exactly how the values laws as well as regs are mosting likely to.
use, right? And afterwards once you establish what those values problems are, you got to number.
out what type of treatments are you going to use? Are you mosting likely to make them do this? You understand, remember, they'' re SGEs, so they can ' t obtain certificates of divestiture.Are.

you going to kind of make them recuse from component of the conversation? Are you going to inform.
them sorry, you can'' t serve on'this board? I don ' t recognize.
Those are things that you have. to find out before you placed them on the darned board, right? After that throughout the operation and also discontinuation,. you ' ve obtained various other concerns. You'' ve reached vet values problems before each brand-new matter,.
and for and also for post-employment. You recognize what? If you have a standing board, I.
bet you they'' re going to discuss more than one issue, right? They'' re going to go listen.
yes they'' re mosting likely to go do deliberations on one issue. The matter might alter. The.
board could reform. They can begin talking regarding one more issue, or an additional particular.
matter, as well as all of an unexpected, the SGE, which you assumed was fine for one certain matter,.
is suddenly has a problem on one more specific matter. As well as unless you understand, you.
understand, as well as had actually and either evaluated it on your own or had someone in your store do it, evaluation.
it, after that you wear'' t understand if, you understand', someone ' s going to wind up with a problem of passion
,. and also you don'' t desire that.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: I simply wish to jump. in below real quick, Dan, as well as simply to kind of put my 2 cents in, which is to say that. I know that a great deal of questions that when I was acting as a desk policeman, a great deal of the. questions that I got over the years from from little boards and payments, as well as from individuals. who were dealing with
advisory boards on a regular basis, was I think particular. matters of general applicability are occasionally hard matters to determine. As well as I as well as I. would truly motivate you, if if you ' re awkward with kind of making'those decisions,. or you ' re unreal specific regarding it, to try to get to out and also get some assistance with. those determinations.Because frequently, we ' ve we had also many people that thought that unless.

they specified party'issues, or points that you can determine as certain party. issues, that 208 wasn ' t a trouble, and that you truly didn ' t have that your boards. as well as your consultatory committees didn ' t have conflicts, due to the fact that you didn ' t handle'certain celebration. matters, which ' s just merely not the case. So, I would truly motivate you to make certain. if you were if you ' re encouraging advisory boards, or if you'' re or if your CMOs( phonetic )are. the ones who are doing it; whoever is doing your problems analysis for your advisory. committees, that they truly have a truly excellent strong perceptiveness concerning what an issue. of basic applicability appears like.
Dan Ft: And as well as, by the method, OGE has some. superb assistance on the site about concerning certain issues, and also what they are, and. and also just how to make that established with issues that get on applicability, and also specific event. matters.So, I urge everyone to go print it out and also keep in a file
somewhere near you. As well as lastly, you know, I intended to likewise talk. regarding communication throughout charter as well as membership revival; because, you recognize what, your your.
your charter can change, your members can change, you could have SGEs on there
that. are are, you recognize, as well as they have an issue with the new with a brand-new panel. You can have. people who are agents and also now they ' re now SGEs,
or possibly you need SGEs on your brand-new. board; you put on ' t know unless you examine.
So, just how do you avoid some problems? Okay,. well, like I stated, my entire presentation below is essentially the view from the trenches, so. to speak.You know, I have actually extremely hardly ever seen a disclosure form that didn ' t need a comply with. up. You recognize that there ' s going to be something on there that'either looks funky, or requirements. extra description, or you simply you just require to recognize what ' s going on; so, you understand, do. your follow up. Don ' t forget the subcommittees. You.
understand, you might have a charter board, yet now you obtained all these subcommittees that. have SGEs on it, as well as you ' re figuring oh, well, it ' s just a subcommittee, it'' s fine, whatever'' s. mosting likely to go on and obtain reviewed by the the committee. Eh, incorrect. You you require to.
make sure that if you have subcommittees, and there are SGEs, you'' re going to need to. accumulate the economic disclosure forms, you'' re going to need to see if'there ' s an issue. there. You understand, it'' s not simply your charter committee, it ' s any person that ' s obtained their hands,. you recognize, on this info. Job with your your DFO on the committee charge, all right? Because. once you know what that charge is, you ' re going to know, or at the very least have a better idea,. you recognize, what are the matters that are mosting likely to turn up? What kind of specific issues? You recognize, is it mosting likely to specify event matters? You was familiar with when that issue.
is mosting likely to, well, matter, so to speak.I type of

live by the claiming that if it'' s. not documented, it didn'' t take place, merely due to the fact that if you put on'' t create it down, you'' re going
to. obtain right into this he said/she claimed kind of circumstance, as well as someone'' s going to say,. well 6 months ago you informed me it was all right to do X, and also you'' re mosting likely to be like, I didn ' t.
state that. And oh, yes you did. As well as I always comply with up with a note stating on such and also such.
a day, we reviewed whatever. Remember your remedies, right? Divestiture,.
recusal, maybe they wear'' t offer on the committee; there ' s simply remember what your treatments are. As well as lastly what I intended to claim right here was expect.
the unforeseen. What are you going to do if your SGE involves you, as well as it'' s right before. your public FACA conference, as well as informs you that she'' s simply authorized an agreement to do some research study.
with the really certain celebration that'' s directably (phonetic) and also naturally effected by the.
specific event issue that'' s the topic of your meeting? What are you mosting likely to do? Are.
you going to inform her not to go to? Inform her she can go to part of it? Are you going.
to ask her if she'' s currently participated, in which instance you currently have a conflict.
problem? Are you mosting likely to try to obtain a waiver if there'' s no involvement? I put on'' t understand. You recognize, God restricted this must this need to happen to you, but if it does, at
least have. in the back of your mind what you ' re mosting likely to perform in case the unexpected happens.Let me simply talk a little bit about the significant. differences once again between SGEs that are, you understand, not on FACA panels, as well as those that are. on FACA panels. As well as, you understand, this simply speaks with what I stated previously regarding the truth that. there ' s really 2 tastes of SGEs; those on FACA boards, and also those not on FACA. committees. Simply to advise you, if they ' re out a FACA panel, they ' re not mosting likely to. obtain the'exemption for basic applicability issues by you know, because their employment. Karen will certainly speak a little concerning the emoluments. condition, and also they wear ' t get the exemption there.
They wear'' t get the( b) (3) waivers, because.
they'' re not functioning on a FACA committee, and so they'' re held to a greater criterion. You'' re. mosting likely to attempt to obtain them a waiver for a dispute of interest.And the bottom

line is, you recognize,.
they'' re typically not there simply to provide advice to the government, you understand, they ' re they ' re. the employee . They ' re mosting likely to turn up'each day, you ' re going to see them, right,. you recognize. As well as the concern you have to ask on your own. is, you recognize,'are you reliant on others to collect this info for you'? Who ' s. minding your principles store, right? It ' s possible you ' re mosting likely to be relying on other ethics. authorities to do their job, so you can do your job.
Do you have a decentralized system? Just how. positive can you'be? Just how much can you trust the principles officials that you ' re relying upon? Are you providing any specialized training? Are you interacting with
them? Those are. the kind of the concerns that you simply you just require to ask on your own. So, simply a little suggestion about what to do. before, during or after.You understand

, before, think me, it'' s far better to veterinarian your SGEs before.
they turn up, due to the fact that you wear'' t want to actually hire them and also discover they have a dispute.
of interest as well as they can'' t get involved, since that doesn'' t assistance out any individual. Be cautious of reanimated staff members; those that.
were RGEs as well as instantly currently you'' ve turned up as SGEs in a brand-new life, and also as SGEs that now.
have outside employment, as well as outside monetary rate of interests. And you'' re going like what? And also
. the solution is, yeah, that can actually occur. And just with all due respect to the very first.
display that you showed, I'' d say SGEs are special, with a large S Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Dan Fort: yet they'' re not unique, with a. small S. You don'' t treatment where they came from, you'put on ' t treatment that they are, all you understand. is they are unique civil servant now, they get some variation from the ethics legislations.
and regs by merit of the fact they'' re SGEs, however that ' s it.And throughout the panel, you know, no disclosure,.
no reason, fine, you understand? They have to inform you what they'' re doing, and also they need to offer.
you a full accounting of what'' s taking place. If they ' re not informing you, or you'' re stressed.
that you'' re not obtaining the complete story, ask. See the days; since remember, we spoke.
about earlier the variety of days they function makes a distinction. And also there'' s a whole nice.
composing from OGE regarding day counting and what counts as a day. You understand, if you work for.
simply one hr, one hr during a day, that'' s considered one complete day of job for the objective.
of day checking. Now, that doesn'' t it can ' t be like pastoral obligations; like hi, can. you involve this meeting on Thursday, you recognize. Okay, that'' s not function. Yet if they'' re. doing also if they'' re doing any kind of house benefit one hour; bam, that counts as an entire.
day.Be the referral, since a person'' s going. to have to talk with these people, and also assist them out if they have inquiries, and, you.
understand, you'' re mosting likely to need to be the referral for them. And the even more you ask, the much more you. know. You you you need to find out what ' s taking place. Pry, be meddlesome; that'' s. fine, they comprehend. And after, you need to remember you know what,.
the SGEs still aren'' t unique. They might be unique with an S, however they'' re not large S,.
capital S, but not special with a small S.They ' re just another ex-government employee,.
similar to everyone else. You reached enjoy their days and you reached view the cash,.
due to the fact that if they make over $76.71 a hr for this schedule year, as well as job over 60 days.
during the previous 365-day period, think what? Then they'' ve obtained a ceasefire agreement,.
and they can'' t stand for back to their firm for an one-year duration. So, you never ever understand,.
that might be a problem relying on what you'' re paying them, as well as how long they work. As well as the last piece I place in there was beware,.
you may see them once again as they transition.You know, God recognizes what ' ll happen in change'. You may see people that are employees that might reveal up once again sometime in the future. as special federal government workers, wear ' t really know yet, however'it can occur. As well as last, yet not the very least, I intended to provide.
some kind of parting words of wisdom. This is sort of based on the reality that I'' ve been.
at EPA for 26 years, and also this will probably be the last time I'' ll ever before get a chance to.
do this.So, let this allow me provide you some parting words of knowledge. You understand, I type of quote Yogi Berra right here. It'' s like déjà vu throughout once more, all right? And also the factor I say that is, you recognize what,.
you'' re visiting the very same troubles over as well as over and also over once again, with various SGEs,.
sometimes with the very same SGE. Take into consideration producing some type of system that'' s going to arrange.
your recommendations, so you can see to it you provide regular advice over time.The vow of office is greater than simply quite. words. I suggest due to the fact that remember, you recognize, you had to take the oath of workplace, right? You know, well, guess what? So did SGEs. And it ought to be as actual for them as it is for. the rest of us.
As well as you understand why? Since in the last analysis, civil service is a. public trust, right? Where you rest issues, not where you stand. You know, you ' re the principles official. It doesn ' t issue what you think regarding what a board.
is doing, it doesn'' t issue what you consider the individual, you know, you are the values.
official.You ' re the one
that people are mosting likely to be relying on to give the right info,. to give a definitive solution, as well as to assist ensure that the integrity of government procedures. are upheld.
You obtained to understand who you are. You was familiar with.
what your role is in the organization. You learnt more about who you'' re mosting likely to rely upon to. carry out these principles obligations, and also you reached ask on your own the question, just how certain are.
you in the capacity of these individuals to perform their tasks to aid you.How much

can.
you trust them? And lastly, I wished to say you.
are never ever alone. Like I stated, after my lots of years of government experience, I can guarantee.
you I'' d more than happy to plug OGE. They are here to help.They'' ve got wonderful info and
wonderful individuals. You got a problem, they'' re a source, talk with them. You can rely upon them. With that, I ' ll be quiet.
Cheryl Kane-Piasecki:'Well', thank you Dan, significantly. Karen, it ' s it ' s it ' s your turn now, my dear.
If oh, Patrick, we have a question? Patrick Shepherd: Yes, actually we do have an inquiry that
' s probably timely below. We have another one that we leave for completion, but this returns to the day counting exercise. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm. Patrick Guard: As well as it ' s intriguing to me that the counting of the days appears to be the hardest component here. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. Patrick Guard: As well as the concern is, there are some authorities, statutory authorities, consisting of 5 U.S.C.

3109 and also 5 C.F.R. 304 that enables companies to appoint experts and also specialists for terms in unwanted of 130 days. So, have you dealt with this, and also, you know, exactly how do you characterize them under the SGE policies, if they'' re going to be specialists and
professionals for more than 130 days? Or perhaps you don'' t have any type of. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: I suggest I I suggest I assume that I believe that, you understand, the interpretation for SGE is 130 days or much less.
So, I think by definition, anyone who is worked with for any purposes who is mosting likely to surpass 130 days is, by meaning, by statutory interpretation, not an SGE.I indicate a I suggest, yeah, I assume that is rather simple. Patrick Shepherd: Okay, thanks Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Patrick, can you.
put us on the Karen Santoro: So, I recognize we intend to leave time for concerns, so I'' ll be brief. What are the various other ethics policies that we have to know? I'' m mosting likely to briefly expand a bit on some of the subjects you listened to Dan speak about. At NSF, as I stated, we have a choice form for our FACA SGEs. It essentially is a certification.It notes associations that might increase prospective concerns, such as the ones you ' re seeing on the slides here. And the SGE indicators it and also licenses that they don ' t have any of these associations. Nevertheless, also though they signed this type before the meeting, we make certain they understand they have a proceeding obligation throughout the whole program of the meeting, to divulge anything that may come up. As an example, when they ' re looking at a proposition, maybe deep'inside that proposal is
a student of theirs, as well as that ' s not obvious on the cover sheet, or'any type of other place.So they would certainly be obligated to inform us concerning it.

For non-FACA SGEs, they submit the normal; 278e or a 450. We have the ability to exclude filers from the 450 for our non-FACA SGEs. You can do that if the opportunity of a problem is remote. At NSF we have persons called elderly science advisors. They put on ' t have any kind of grant cash obligation, they are'there to provide us suggestions on the direction of study
, so they might be omitted under this.Also, if they have a low degree of responsibility, such as they ' re inputting information, or they'' re making use of existing data'to prepare reports; that may be circumstances in which they might be left out from filing. NSF makes liberal use
OGE ' s providing the ability to utilize written training instead of in person. You heard our numbers, therefore we do use created training for
our FACA SGEs, in addition to our non-FACA SGEs. We usually have people in remote areas, as I mentioned Antarctica, as well as so we make use of the composed training for them. And also Dan pointed out Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: You mean you put on ' t you wear ' t get yourself a trip to Antarctica so you can'do it face to face? Karen Santoro: That could be in the cards (phonetic). Dan discussed numerous of the topics that are covered, and also let me enter into the emoluments clause.So, that primarily states if you work for the
United state Federal government, you can not likewise be employed by an international government. As well as my understanding is that this provision was enacted in the constitution, due to the fact that when Ben Franklin was ambassador to Paris, he came back from a journey to France with a jewel-encrusted snuffbox, as well as some people got dismayed regarding that and also bothered with possible excessive influence from international governments. Now, this condition is going to link a FACA SGE, for instance, that might hold a professorship at MIT, but also has a visiting consultation at a college in China.
It additionally might affect customers from international nations who have visits with foreign universities that are taken into consideration part of the foreign federal government. So, there is a series of OLC opinions; most significantly, one in March 9, 2005 concerning the Head of state ' s Council on Bioethics, and likewise a subsequent
OLC viewpoint on June 15, 2007 worrying the FBI that generally mentions the emoluments clause does not use if they ' re. on a board, and it ' s totally advisory.And so we have relief in that respect. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki': Can you simply quickly. repeat just the referrals to those, so that people on the phone as well as on the Hangout,.
if they desire those references, can you simply briefly repeat those? Karen Santoro: Definitely
. It ' s OLC viewpoint. dated March 9, 2005 as well as June 15, 2007. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Great. Karen Santoro: A stipulation enacted by this. management is for FACA SGEs offering on boards; as well as that is, they can not be federally.
registered lobbyists. And also there are data sources you can examine for that, however once again, given NSF ' s.
number, we depend on accreditation. All our FACA SGEs have to sign up with us, and as. part of that enrollment, they authorize a certification that you see. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: So, this is
the that ' s. the qualification declaration? Karen Santoro: Right, mm-hmm.
Various other lobbying. considerations depend on what hat the SGE is wearing.
If they ' re showing up prior to Congress. as an exclusive individual, as the dean of a college, as the president of a clinical society,. they can lobby all they want, supplied they ' re not on responsibility and they ' re not utilizing USA. Federal government sources for those purposes.If an SGE is mosting likely to represent NSF, NSF has.

to license them to do that. We desire to consult with one voice, as well as so they would function closely. with our Workplace of Regulations as well as Public Affairs,
prior to providing any testimony prior to. Congress. There ' s likewise something called lawn origins.
lobbying, which ' s when you urge others to call Congress. We had a chair of an. consultatory board who desired to send out a letter to every dean at every college, urging. them to call their Congress members Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Oh, child.
Karen Santoro: to raise the NSF budget. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Oh, wow. Karen Santoro: As Well As we needed to put the kibosh. on that.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Extremely great intents,. yet. Karen Santoro: So, does the Hatch Act use. to
SGEs? It does. Take a look at 5 C.F.R. 734.601, which says, the political task. for irregular, occasional-basis employees are covered, which ' s an SGE
; nevertheless, the. application is slim, and also that'is, it only uses when they are on responsibility. So, for example, if one of our proposal-review. panels meets from 8:00 to 3:00, an SGE on that particular panel might most likely to a political fundraising event. at 5:00; and also in reality, they can solicit fund for whatever prospect the fundraising event was. being held for.Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Interesting.
Karen Santoro: And also by
contrast, we ' ve obtained. our non-FACA SGEs, who we deal with as less-restricted workers. So, the not in the government structure,. not while working, not using federal government resources, puts on them, but also the restrictions. that use 24/7, we
put on them too; such as, no fundraising, as well as the constraints.
on running for public office. I wished to highlight a pair of current developments. Maintain your eye out for a GAO report on SGE interaction. GAO concerned NSF, HHS, DOJ, State.
Department and NRC, and also their emphasis was non-FACA SGEs. As well as the impetus for this was Legislator.
Grassley looking at the former Assistant of State Clinton'' s aide, Huma Abedin, who is.
wed to a congressman that likes to take selfies. She was a regular staff member at the.
State Department. She came to be an SGE, and also thus, she had various other employment, which is really,.
really common; nonetheless, he has this, like a canine with a bone, and also is pursuing it. And also so, all these various other firms were asked.
concerns such as how are SGEs marked? How are they tracked? That'' s in charge of.
training? Just how is financial disclosure monitored? As well as they likewise asked us, the amount of normal workers.
transform into SGEs? So, we expect a record on that particular shortly.And I wish to finish up by calling your focus. to proposed regulation, FACA Amendments- H.R. 2347. It passed the House and also is now in a. Senate committee. It has some considerable effects. For instance, it specifies that. the DAEO ought to examine FACA board designations when the charter is composed, and whenever. the charter is restored.
And it makes particular info openly available; as an example,. the reason a committee member was chosen; recusals, waivers, summary of the conflict,. the factors for granting it, as well as and the mins. And also so, if if you are not knowledgeable about this, I.
urge you to call your board monitoring office and and get the full extent of this. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Well, why don'' t. we open it up for concerns? I wish to Dennis, I wish to open the phone now for.
concerns that anybody has on the phone, and if we have anything on the Hangout, we'' re. happy to captivate any inquiries that you have. Operator: Thanks. Right now, if you'' d. like to ask an inquiry, you press Celebrity 1 on the touchpad on your phone.You obtain asked. to tape your name before asking your question. Once more, that ' s Celebrity 1 on the touchpad of your. phone. One moment, please.
Patrick Shepherd: And also the people on the Hangout,. if you have a concern, you can ask your concern by inputting in the lower right-hand edge of. your screen. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki
: Well, while we ' re waiting,. I one point I was so very first of all, I intend to thanks both for coming and also re-presenting.
what you offered at the at the OGE Top. One inquiry that I had for both of you was.
to what degree do your people do any kind of kind of pre visit vetting? Like do you utilize the.
450 in all, or are you aware whether any one of your boards use the 450 at all.
to do any type of kind of pre-appointment vetting before actually selecting individuals to the committees? Dan Fort: Well in both of our case, we have.
our very own economic disclosure type for (indiscernible – 1:14:43). Yet, yeah, in our instance, they collect.
the monetary disclosure kind and also vet it even before they'' re appointed. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right, right. Dan Ft: So, why bother bringing someone.
on if they'' re mosting likely to have some kind of deadly conflict? Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Mm-hmm.

Dan Fort: I mean there'' s simply no point. You'' ll. be squandering their time and ours. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Right. Do we have any kind of.
concerns on the phone? Operator: Ma'' am, at this time, I show no doubt. in the line. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Patrick, are we Patrick Guard: And also we wear ' t have
any kind of additional. concerns on the Hangout. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: Okay. Well, I assume.
that that that we'' ve we ' ve certainly addressed everybody ' s questions, as well as offered them all.
the info that they would like to know. Once more, thanks Karen, and also thank you Dan,
. for being below. Dan Fort: Pleasure. Cheryl Kane-Piasecki: I appreciate it very.
a lot, you sharing your competence and and your plans and procedures with the area. And also I intend to thanks all for having joined us this afternoon. And please song in following week for the Advanced.
Expert Series. It will certainly be handling FOIA, the Ethics in Government Act as well as the.
Personal privacy Act.And until next week, many thanks as well as have a terrific afternoon.

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